Comments on: What Role Did Democracy Play In The Scriptures? http://www.insearchofmanna.com/2010/02/14/what-role-did-democracy-play-in-the-scriptures/ Pastor Ron Hyre's Blog Tue, 18 May 2010 15:52:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Pastor Ron http://www.insearchofmanna.com/2010/02/14/what-role-did-democracy-play-in-the-scriptures/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Pastor Ron Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:06:13 +0000 http://www.insearchofmanna.com/?p=686#comment-28 Control...yep. In their efforts to control, it's all out of control!!! :>) Control…yep. In their efforts to control, it’s all out of control!!! :>)

]]> By: DBee http://www.insearchofmanna.com/2010/02/14/what-role-did-democracy-play-in-the-scriptures/comment-page-1/#comment-27 DBee Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:50:05 +0000 http://www.insearchofmanna.com/?p=686#comment-27 I believe this could well have been the beginning of the Oral Torah. Oral torah as with our gov. probably started with seemingly good intentions gradually adding a little here and a little there to help control things a little better…….eventually snowballing into craziness to the point where you need a rabbi or lawyer to interpret it all. Man’s religion or man’s gov. it seems to be about men convincing men (by creating bondage) to rely on man instead of YHWH. I believe this could well have been the beginning of the Oral Torah. Oral torah as with our gov. probably started with seemingly good intentions gradually adding a little here and a little there to help control things a little better…….eventually snowballing into craziness to the point where you need a rabbi or lawyer to interpret it all. Man’s religion or man’s gov. it seems to be about men convincing men (by creating bondage) to rely on man instead of YHWH.

]]> By: Pastor Ron http://www.insearchofmanna.com/2010/02/14/what-role-did-democracy-play-in-the-scriptures/comment-page-1/#comment-26 Pastor Ron Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:52:20 +0000 http://www.insearchofmanna.com/?p=686#comment-26 Same here! We actually discussed this situation in our Sabbath gathering! The same questions came up about Moses' father-in-law and his suggestion and YHWH'S quietness regarding it. A puzzle for sure. However, Deuteronomy 17 seems to confirm this direction. The question in my mind? Could this be the beginnings of the Oral Torah, with it's variety of interpretations of The Torah? Could this be the beginnings of what ended up being the rabbinical system of Judaism, with it's many "schools of thought?" I think your idea with USA's founders is right on! Would to YHWH that HIS system will be just that! Same here! We actually discussed this situation in our Sabbath gathering! The same questions came up about Moses’ father-in-law and his suggestion and YHWH’S quietness regarding it. A puzzle for sure. However, Deuteronomy 17 seems to confirm this direction. The question in my mind? Could this be the beginnings of the Oral Torah, with it’s variety of interpretations of The Torah? Could this be the beginnings of what ended up being the rabbinical system of Judaism, with it’s many “schools of thought?” I think your idea with USA’s founders is right on! Would to YHWH that HIS system will be just that!

]]> By: DBee http://www.insearchofmanna.com/2010/02/14/what-role-did-democracy-play-in-the-scriptures/comment-page-1/#comment-25 DBee Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:48:19 +0000 http://www.insearchofmanna.com/?p=686#comment-25 So... Something I've been wondering since recently reading 1 Sam.8 (give us a king) (already quoted). and Ex. 18: (Jethro's judge system) Ex. 18: 13. And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening. 14. And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even? 15. And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: 16. When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. 17. And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. 18. Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone. 19. Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: 20. And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. 21. Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: 22. And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. 23. If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. 24. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. 25. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. 26. And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves. 27. And Moses let his father in law depart; and he went his way into his own land. In verse 23 Jethro tells Moses "if you shall do this thing, and God command you so"...unless I missed something God never commands Moses to go through with this. I also find it interesting that in the very next chapter (Ex.19) they are at Sinai where YHWH wants them all to hear His voice (YHWH's plan not Jethro's) to give them His ways! If this would have happen, there would be no need for rulers over 1,000s or 100s or 10s everyone would have been equipped to handle all situations. Is this not the same today, here and now? What I’ve been wondering, and this may be a little off track of what is being said, but had the founding fathers of this country been truly seeking our creator on how this country should be set up... they would have found Torah, that would have been our constitution and those men (the founders) would have ultimately worked themselves out of a job! But it is quite the opposite, they set up a man centered system (similar to Jethro’s), that system works very hard at trying to convince us that we cannot possibly function without them and we have all bought into it. Would it not be? Where YHWH is truly one, democracy or any man made system would be a nonissue, there would be a one mindedness at all times. It is hard for me to imagine living in a world where that would be the case. So… Something I’ve been wondering since recently reading 1 Sam.8 (give us a king) (already quoted).
and Ex. 18: (Jethro’s judge system)
Ex. 18:
13. And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.
14. And when Moses’ father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?
15. And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:
16. When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.
17. And Moses’ father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good.
18. Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.
19. Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:
20. And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
21. Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
22. And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.
23. If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
24. So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
25. And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.
26. And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.
27. And Moses let his father in law depart; and he went his way into his own land.

In verse 23 Jethro tells Moses “if you shall do this thing, and God command you so”…unless I missed something God never commands Moses to go through with this.
I also find it interesting that in the very next chapter (Ex.19) they are at Sinai where YHWH wants them all to hear His voice (YHWH’s plan not Jethro’s) to give them His ways! If this would have happen, there would be no need for rulers over 1,000s or 100s or 10s everyone would have been equipped to handle all situations. Is this not the same today, here and now?

What I’ve been wondering, and this may be a little off track of what is being said, but had the founding fathers of this country been truly seeking our creator on how this country should be set up… they would have found Torah, that would have been our constitution and those men (the founders) would have ultimately worked themselves out of a job! But it is quite the opposite, they set up a man centered system (similar to Jethro’s), that system works very hard at trying to convince us that we cannot possibly function without them and we have all bought into it.

Would it not be? Where YHWH is truly one, democracy or any man made system would be a nonissue, there would be a one mindedness at all times. It is hard for me to imagine living in a world where that would be the case.

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